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#TrumpDay – Hardcore Edition

Friday, July 1, 2011

THIS Blogger Stands With Geller - Updated

I stand with Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs, always.

Yesterday, Pamela posted at her place about a troubling  issue within the counter-jihad group the English Defense League, and she caught hell over it both in the comments threads at her blog and then a whole bunch of other bloggers piled on in an "Open Letter" excoriating her for discussing an issue with her own readers that EDL leader Tommy Robinson himself acknowledged exists. Jihad Watch has also posted about this and now Robert Spencer is also taking heat for standing with Pamela.

Robert Spencer's comments about the attack against Pamela Geller, via Jihad Watch:
There is circulating around the blogosphere an "Open Letter to Pamela Geller," attacking my SIOA colleague for her concerns about the EDL. Pamela Geller has responded in great detail here, and since I am in full agreement with the statement that precipitated this attack, I feel it incumbent upon me to respond also. In fact, when Pamela first crafted her statement about the EDL, before she published it she asked me what I thought of it, and I suggested that she add a few thoughts -- which she did. So the statement as it stands represents as much my sentiments as hers. It was SIOA's position.
What is unaccountable is that this "Open Letter" was published after the appearance of EDL chief Tommy Robinson's statement yesterday, which addressed as valid the very concerns Pamela raised -- the ones that the "Open Letter" claims are baseless and defamatory.
So what is the agenda here? This is just the latest in a series of unwarranted and unjustifiable attacks by Gates of Vienna and other signers of this "Open Letter" on Pamela Geller and me. It is always dispiriting when professed anti-jihadists fight against other anti-jihadists instead of against the jihadists, and Gates of Vienna and other sites allied with it have been doing that for quite some time. I guess for some people, gaining market share by denigrating more effective warriors is more important than fighting the actual war. But particularly revealing here is the fact that, as Pamela notes below, some of those who are shown as signing the "Open Letter" never approved the use of their names at all. It looks as if these puffed-up self-styled machiavellis and self-righteous, short-sighted purveyors of friendly fire are getting desperate.
Here is Pamela's post, referred to above, via Atlas Shrugs:

Lord of the Flies: Machiavelli Comes to the Blogosphere

I did not want to write this post. But because the motives of the people in question are so nefarious, they must be exposed.
I am a longtime, original supporter of the English Defence League from the very first demo in 2009, before anyone would touch them with a ten-foot pole – even this group of keyboard warriors. No one in America has taken as much heat as I have for supporting the EDL. No one. My defense of the EDL is constantly used to defame me, and I have never faltered in my support of the group. When I speak at universities, I am routinely challenged about the EDL (an example is at minute 4:45 of this video). CAIR includes the EDL in every press release on me; the Southern Poverty Law Center uses it all the time. The Guardian, Newsweek,  and the New York Times mentioned it in their articles about me. Notorious blogger Max Blumenthal at the Huffington Post have even gone so far as to call the EDL “Atlas’s Thugs.” And I never wavered.
From their first demo, when they were denounced and smeared as the scum of the earth, I knew the EDL was noble and true. I still believe that. I still believe that the majority of the membership are good and decent and fine people. The issue for some time has been certain elements in the administration. There will always be infiltrators and plants who get into the membership. But it is important to keep the admins clean.
This is an ongoing problem, and hardly a secret. It was most obviously acknowledged in yesterday’s statement by the leader of the EDL, Tommy Robinson and posted at Facebook here. He said: “We repudiate any individual, group or writing that favors anti-Semitism, neofascism, and any race-based ideology. Any rogue elements within the EDL who go against our mission statement and our beliefs will be removed from the organization; we are determined to remain true to our mission. Anti-Semitism will not ever be tolerated within the EDL.”
And there is anti-Semitism in the EDL now. This is much bigger than Roberta Moore. She is just the tip of the spear. It is not going away with her resignation, as evidenced by the anti-Semitic comments at Atlas (here and here) and elsewhere, and the attacks on the EDL’s Jewish division as a whole. The Open Letter complains that I adduced no evidence, but in fact the evidence is available for everyone to see. As one commenter wrote at Atlas:
I can not see how Pamela's comment has in any way damaged her reputation because what has been said is true. I shouldn't think Pamela stands alone on this, lets not forget, the areas of EDL conversation have been open to public viewing for a long while, ie the forums and facebook. The content has been there for all to see. No doubt there are many others who have witnessed the downward spiral. It is to be expected that some members will crawl out off woodwork armed with their own twisted version of events. You may fool some but not all. There has been, for quite some time, a concerted effort by a main core of ruthless people, and one person in particular springs to mind, who has been a huge driving force behind a crusade to disband the Jewish Division. Come what may, there were absolutely determined to oust Roberta and then to disband the Jewish Division, not satisfied with that, they also would like to see the LGBT Division ousted as well as other divisions ie Pakistani Christian, Hindu and Sikh support etc. It has been a slow process of infiltration, not forgetting, great effort has been made in trying to brainwash and turn others against Israel, those gullible enough not to do their own research or think for themselves, were being deliberately force-fed the instigators vile and moronic distaste for anything to do with Israel. At one stage the EDL forums were, to an extent, regulated, but as time drew on it lapsed and it became free flow abuse of Israel/Jews, Roberta, supporters of Israel and Jews. It got to the stage where people felt criminal to announce their support for Israel - if you were a supporter of Israel and disagreed with anti-semitic viewpoints, people were accused of being a plant, an infiltrator and a lobbyist, and publicly denigrated! At one point any support shown towards the BNP was subtly halted, but with time this too became accepted. It got to the stage where topics on Israel where moved to a sub-sub-forum part of the board by a core element, by the same instigators! Sometimes threads and posts would disappear. People who wanted to discuss the topic of Israel were attacked and bullied, and between the nasty core of people they would get the person banned. We lost some interesting members. So, it doesn't surprise me to see people swarm over here with only half of the story - it wouldn't look good telling the truth would it? It doesn't take a lot of working out which side of the fence they've been sitting on and who they are protecting. Well, keep up with the lies and half truths, but remember, I won't sit here and let the lies stay uncountered. There is a lot more I could say, but for the time being I am done here.
My support for the EDL has been unwavering, but I cannot and will not sanction anti-Semitic infiltration.
It seems to me that this Open Letter that was written to me has a far different agenda from its stated purpose. Ned May, who is “Baron Bodissey” of Gates of Vienna, is the Machiavellian plotter behind this attack on me – and he himself described himself as such in the EDL forums. He has posted scurrilous attacks on me and Robert Spencer well before this. Perhaps because he has accomplished little, he seeks to attain some sort of notoriety by destroying elements of the counterjihad movement that are more effective than he is.
At the same time, and probably not coincidentally, Gates of Vienna has become a home for many anti-Semitic rants that are deeply disturbing; not only are these sanctioned by the proprietors, but they’ve added to the chorus. As Ayn Rand said, “In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit.”
Now the “Baron” is urging other bloggers to join him in this campaign of destruction, and in the absence of significant traction, he has even gone so far as to include peoples’ names who never agreed to be on the list. Holger Danske and Henrik Raeder Clausen of Europe News wrote me to assure me that their names were ill-used: they had never agreed to sign on. I am told that Hans Erling Jensen, whose name also appears on it, is angry about this Open Letter also.
One who did sign on voluntarily, however, was KGS of Tundra Tabloids. I was genuinely surprised when I saw that he had added his name to the list. To me, this is particularly galling. Without going into details, I took a lot of heat covering for KGS and maintaining confidentiality back in 2009 when “Baron Bodissey” began falsely accusing of violating that confidentiality. But I kept silent so as not to expose KGS. And this is how I am repaid.
Then there was a revealing incident, in 2010, when the “Baron” and many of the signers of this Open Letter falsely accused Spencer and me of being responsible for YouTube’s deletion of a video. They had taken video from our inaugural AFDI conference at CPAC in 2010 of Allen West’s speech and subtitled it in various European languages. They had taken the video without the knowledge or consent of the person who filmed it, Pamela Hall – who thereupon complained to them.
They did not answer, so she complained to YouTube, as she had every right to do. YouTube removed the video after it had gotten an enormous number of hits. Ned and the others blamed us for this removal, and accused us of selfishness and lack of commitment to the cause – and continued these false accusations even after we had told them that we had known nothing about any complaints about the video.
Why? Why would they knowingly propagate falsehoods? What’s their real agenda?
I have been loathe to air all this out publicly, unlike this group, which seems to thrive on these conflicts -- although I did address their scandalous lies about the West video at the time. Other EDL members have sent me screenshots of Vlad and Ned in their forums, making the most egregious statements about me. They have been doing this for some time now. So what’s their real motive in this? My work speaks for itself -- and now clearly, so does theirs.
At their sites, they’re even deleting comments that defend my position. My partner Anders Gravers of Stop the Islamisation of Denmark tried to add this comment at Liberties Alliance, but it was blocked: “Henrik Ræder from Europe News says he has not been asked if he wanted to be on the list. Maybe he doesn't want to be on the list because Tommy Robinson admits that there is a problem with antisemitism but says it will be solved and that EDL is 100% behind Jews and Israel. These statements from Robinson should end the allegations that Pamela is not loyal to the cause and EDL. There will always be attempts on infiltration of groups like ours from the red nazis and the brown nazis. The only thing we can do is to clean out when we find them.” And John Jay tried to add a comment at Gates of Vienna, but was also blocked – read about it here.
I want to urge bloggers who may not be aware of the details, and are being strong-armed into signing this statement, that they first get all the facts. There may be other people on that list whose names are unauthorized. Why would they falsely put people’s names there? What are they trying to do?
Everyone on that list should be deeply concerned about the hijacking of the EDL. By ignoring it, these bloggers are sanctioning this vile racism. They completely disrespected Tommy Robinson by disregarding and ignoring his statement, which confirmed the concerns I had expressed in my own statement – the very concerns this group claims are without supporting evidence. Is there more to that? Is this cabal working to undermine his leadership?
In contrast, I spoke to Tommy Robinson at length; he issued his statement to SIOA. Considering his statement, I am not withdrawing my support for the EDL, but I continue to be deeply concerned and will be watching how events unfold. Instead of working to purge the EDL of these vile elements, the signers of this Open Letter are trying to destroy those of us who seek to maintain the proper focus of our mission and the EDL’s mission, which is fighting for freedom. I support the EDL’s original mission, but we cannot sanction evil and cover it up. We should expose it to the sunlight, so as to ensure that the group stays true to its original mission, and so that that mission is not compromised. These Machiavellian bloggers ought to know that.
There is a struggle for the soul of the EDL. Which side do you come down on?

I stand with Pamela Geller and I encourage others to join me and show their support for her too.

If you have a problem with my stand, don't even bother bitching at me about it here, I do not suffer trolls at my own blog and have a standard policy  for dealing with them.

This post is included in Larwyn's Linx at Doug Ross. Thank you, Doug!

Linked at Boudica BPI Weblog, big thanks to Bob and all BPI sites who also stand with Pamela Geller!

This post is linked at Fleece Me. Thank you! 

This post is linked at The Other McCain and Robert Stacy McCain ALSO stands with Pamela! Thank you, Stacy! 

Atlas Shrugs has linked to this post. Thank you, Pamela, I am honored to stand with you, ALWAYS.

Jihad Watch has linked to this post. Thank you, Robert, I am proud to stand with you in support of Pamela!

UPDATE: Those of us who stand with Pamela are in very good company, please visit Atlas Shrugs and Jihad Watch to read about the enormous outpouring of support for the righteous!

Bare Naked Islam stands with Pamela and asked to be added to this post. 

Conservative Hideout stands with Pamela and has linked to this post. Thank you, Matt!  

Keiko of That's So Haram! stands with Pamela Geller (and linked to this post), and she's doing it all the way from Japan! Thank you, Keiko! 

Teresamerica stands with Pamela Geller (and linked to this post). Thanks, Teresa!

MidnightWatcher's Blogspot Stands With Pamela Geller, as does Reaganite Republican! Via my comments thread here.

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ReaganiteRepublican said...

Pamela is OUR Geert Wilders

God Bless her

Zilla of the Resistance said...

Indeed, and Amen!

sablegsd said...

I stand with Pamela Geller also.  She is a brave woman in the fight against koranimals.

I have nothing but contempt for people that fight for koranimals to have their way, to get sharia in every country.  Those people are so stupid they should be committed as a danger to themselves and more importantly, to OTHERS.

SignPainterGuy said...

Pamela really IS our Geert Wilders. Good for her. She asks the right question of those who claim to support Israel but attack others who do; "What is their agenda?"

Thanks MJ for keeping this public. Keeping up w/ your posts, Doug, Glenn, Rush, Michelle Malkin and a few others, local news, local Tea Party activities, GOOOH (Get Out Of Our House), my cat and my fave TV shows, I haven`t made much time for Pam G. That should change; she`s fighting an important battle and suffering the slings and arrows from many who should be her friends and trusted confidants !! No good deed goes unpunished as they say ! I take that as evidence she`s on the right side !

Hang in there girl and know I`m here !

Zilla of the Resistance said...

(((hugs))) I had a feeling you would be. Thank you. 

Zilla of the Resistance said...

But it ain't just the islamonazis, it's the Jew haters that proclaim to be anti-jihad but undermine support for Israel and say and do all kinds of vile anti-Semitic crap, and Pamela called it out, which is why a bunch of jerks are now attacking her all over the blogs, blogs that say they want to fight the jihad, but you can't beat the islamonazis if you join them in hating on Jews.  I am glad that you join me in standing with Pamela, Sablesgd.

SignPainterGuy said...

The islamorageboys are coupling with / or at least adopting nazi ideals in collusion to oppose and eliminate the Jews. It`s the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of collusion. the nazis don`t really care for islam, but they do hate the Jews; therein lies their common purpose .

Is it possible that some of Pamela`s cohorts have some nazi "blood" in them ?

Zilla of the Resistance said...

NOT Pamela's cohorts, SPG, but the cohorts of the people defaming her? Very likely.
 And for the record, the islamonazis were allied with the actual Nazis all along. The Muslim Brotherhood has an intertwined history with the Third Reich. This is well documented and easy to look up. If I have time later, I'll fetch you some links, but you can go to this one for starters:
The issue at hand in this post, however is bloggers who claim to fight the jihad but are not standing against anti-Semitism and hatred for Israel who are now attacking Geller. Some of those bloggers include Gates of Vienna and Vlad Tepes and the things being said in their comment threads are horrible. I've removed both from my blogroll along with others who signed that defamatory letter against my friend Pamela Geller.

SignPainterGuy said...

Yes Dear. You are of course correct......Dear ! ;-)

I knew most of that; just `splained it incompletely if not poorly. Cohorts was a poor choice of words !

Zilla of the Resistance said...

I'm always right. ;) 

Bob A. said...

I have posted and stand with Pamela Geller. Thanks, Zilla.
Bob A.

Zilla of the Resistance said...

Thank you, Bob! I'll update my post. Please let me know if other bloggers join us (or send them here to tell me) and I'll add them too. 

Nick said...

At jihadwatch you said: "SHOW ME where Pamela or Robert said any such thing that people should
leave the EDL, go ahead and try, you won't be able to because you are
ignorantly just making stuff up. Did you even READ Pamela's or Robert's
posts? Or are you just knee jerking to the slander contained in that
detestable "Open letter" tripe? I read Pamela's posts, and Robert's,
about this, in no place to they tell ANYONE to "leave the EDL".

Note that what the original poster said was:  "One major thing I have always respected about Robert Spencer and Pamella Geller is how principled they are."

HA! Pamela Geller is urging people to leave the EDL and join with
someone who wants to associate closely with a racist, homophobic
terrorist and his racist, homophobic organisation. And yes, I'm talking
about Roberta Moore. That's how "principled" Pamela Geller is."

So, as requested:  "I hope that genuine anti-jihadists in Britain will also leave the EDL
and work with Roberta on starting a new group that will resist
definitively and firmly all attempts to divert it from its mission of
fighting against jihad and for human rights."  - Pamela Geller.

Zilla of the Resistance said...

Yeah, I missed that past of the first post that set this whole thing in motion. Sorry. But I still stand with Pamela and find the dogpiling on her and nasty comments about her (not necessarily by you)  at her place and in the threads of the bloggers hating on her to be pretty rotten. I have seen the Jew hating and people who go all unhinged if Israel enters a conversation in some anti-jihad circles and find it not just counterproductive but evil. We let Israel and the Jews be sacrificed at our own peril. As the islamonazis are fond of saying, "first comes Saturday, then Sunday" which means when the Jews are gone, we're next - but already they aren't even waiting as they are already slaughtering Christians too. People learn nothing from history. Ignore hatred of the Jewish people and it festers into something more atrocious than most can imagine. 
You cannot allow evil to get comfortable in any community. Here in the US we had "crash the TEA party" commie infiltrators that had hoped to go to rallies and get themselves on film spouting racist shit to make TEA people look bad, fortunately, TEA people quickly expel those who hold that sort of view or pretend to.
I've seen good online forums get completely destroyed and discredited because nobody bothered to get a handle on the odd troll or bile spewing jackass and like cockroaches, they quickly multiply and then it's too late to salvage whatever good there once was.
If you have a group dedicated to a legitimate and noble cause, you need to stay on top of the who is affiliating themselves with you because if you don't, everything gets all screwed up.
Pamela has done much for the cause of freedom from islamonazis and for the cause of human dignity both here in the US and abroad and she has done it at great personal risk and personal cost.  She spoke out about what she saw as something that needed to be addressed and then AFTER she put up a new post clarifying things, the "open letter" bashing her came out and what appears to be a mob mentality set in with one after another gleefully talking trash about her. As if her years of hard work meant nothing.
Europe has Geert, we have Pamela, and I STAND WITH HER.

SignPainterGuy said...

OT: Herman Cain`s only staffer in NH quit and 2 from IA quit; is this just the disloyals leaving (good riddance), or a sign of something more ominous ? He`s raised $2.4M in a short time; looks like he has good support.......

I don`t think he needs as much $ as some other candidates might, but I`m still a bit concerned. Not giving up on him. I`m also surprised at the poor polling of Santorum ! Curious thing, these polls !

Zilla of the Resistance said...

I don't trust any of the polls, they are all run by those with an agenda of one sort of another and having worked in market research for a political company, I know full well that you can take a poll and based on how the questions are worded and how you calculate the statistics, you can make the results say pretty much whatever you want them to. The only "polls" that matter happen on election days for primaries and general elections.
I am not surprised that RS isn't polling well, the only people talking about him are me, Lisa Graas and Teresamerica. Other bloggers and certainly the stupid MSM don't even mention him AT ALL!
I'm not sure why people left Cain's campaign, but apparently it's not an unusual thing to have happen and the enemedia is just making a stink of it for their own reasons. Stacy McCain has been following it, so you can learn more over at The Other McCain, I'm sure.
He's a big Cain booster from the very beginning, he was for Cain before anyone had even heard of the man.

SignPainterGuy said...

Thanks for the link, MJ, I`ll scoot over there right now.

I`ve not had I-net access through many campaigns, so, with the enemedia (I like that) reporting only what they want to and spinning it the way they want, who knows how much truth I ever got before !

To you and your little Resisters and all the fellow Resisters here, I want to wish you all a very Happy and Safe 4th of July / Independence Day ! Happy Birthday America ! !

On a somewhat sadder note, My Dad succumbed to cancer 21 years ago today, but know that I`m okay, since he is in a much better place, with our Heavenly Father, in no more pain !

Happy grillin` all around everybody, produce lots of extra CO2 and piss off a greenie ! AND, fly those American flags and shoot those fireworks ! :-)

NM said...

I've seen that deeply irrational hatred of Israel surface in what I thought was the most unlikely places too.  When you see it you can't help wondering why on earth is there so much of this poisonous hatred of Israel?  It really makes you think that since there is no rational reason for it whatsoever, it must have its source elsewhere.  One then starts to think about who or what would have so much hatred for God's chosen people.  And once you start thinking along those lines, a lot of things spring into focus ...

So far as Pamela's contretempts with GoV is concerned, I just wish she'd taken the time to speak to/listen to Tommy Robinson before saying anything about it.  In terms of journalism, which Atlas Shrugs aspires to, to some extent (being a popular blog with an author who writes for other blogs/media outlets), it doesn't seem good practice to only listen to the opinion of one person before putting pen to paper.

Journalists (for all their faults) do appear to be obliged to give 'the other party' an opportunity to comment before they write their final piece.  This is apparently taken to be good practice.  Unfortunately Pamela did not do so on this occasion.  I only wish she had.

best wishes,


Zilla of the Resistance said...

Sorry about your dad, anniversaries are hard, but I'm sure he's smiling down on you and is proud of what a good man you are. I hope you have a fantastic 4th!
Oh and looky here, two days after I made my public stand, many moe have joined:

SignPainterGuy said...

Good news for sure, The LORD must be pleased with the out-pouring of support for his people. And look who`s blog is at the tops of both lists !

Gummy Snack said...

It is also a matter of people not listening.
It is amazing that so many things would be easily fixed if people actually listened.
Disagreements often happen because people don't actually listen. If people would have listened to her explanation, they would then understand that she is NOT attacking the EDL. Then many would not be so up in arms. It is amazing how fast people just jump before looking where they would land. Best thing is to first find out what was said exactly, why it was said and the words that were used.... Easy!

As for  certain people that twist other people's words to suit their interest.... This would also be settled if people would discover the whole story before taking a side or merely jumping. It is exploitation of the known fact that people tend to not listen, nor find out for themselves. So yeah people will side with the liar because it suits them. However, I tend to investigate a bit before I come to my conclusion.
I have read Pamela's blogs many many times. I have read Gates of Vienna.
I stopped reading Gates of Vienna due to Anti-Semitic remarks. I saw that clear as day, in the text, right in my face. I have no time for people like that. The writing is also sub par and I can not take the site seriously. I will continue reading Pamela's Atlas Shrugged due to the content. I am not taking sides so to say, the right side, the intelligent side of the matter is apparent the other side doesn't exist. (Because it can not be taken seriously.)

badanov said...

In terms of journalism, which Atlas Shrugs aspires to

Ms Geller was married to the publisher of a New York weekly, and I think she even ran it for a while.  She doesn't aspire to journalism.  She is a journalist.

NM said...

So you agree with me that she ought to have known better.

MidnightWatcher said...

MidnightWatcher's Blogspot also stands with Pam Geller.

ReaganiteRepublican said...

Me too Zilla, she's great

Gellar is our Geert WildersA happy Independence day to you and yoursRR

Teresamerica said...

Thank you for the mention and linkage Zilla.  The antisemitism and hatred for Pamela which is being unearthed by members of the EDL is extremely disturbing. 

Wishing you and yours a Happy Independence Day! 

Donald Douglas said...

Nice work. I'm standing with Pamela.

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